Journal “Business and Management” #1(25)2010

Interview with the Minister of Education and Science, Dimitri Shashkini

Interviewer: Temur Iobashvili

Mini-Dossier: 

Dimitri Shashkini – Date of Birth 08.08.75 Tbilisi

1982-1992 – Tbilisi Secondary School #52

1993-1998 – Tbilisi State University, L aw Faculty, Red Diploma, Master’s Degree in Criminal Law, specialist of State, Tax and Criminal Law.

1992-1993 – Greek-Georgian University, International Law

Professional Experience:

1992-1993 – Ministry of Interior – Inspector of Weapon Office

1997-1998 – American Bar Association (ABA), Program Assistant

1998-2001 – International Republican Institute (IRI) – Assistant Program Officer, 2001-2007 – Resident Program Officer, 2007-2009 – Resident Country Director;

1998-2009 – Private Consulting and Management of the Election Campaigns

He has a wife and two children

Languages: Georgian, English and Russian

Mr. Minister, what was the reason you have been appointed as the Minister of Education and Science from MCLA?

You should ask this question to the President.

What can you say about your previous job, how do you think, where were your activities more effective?

Most important are the President’s, Prime- Minister’s and public’s opinions about my work. In my opinion, the team, who worked in MCLA made a lot. Particularly I am talking about the probation, we created it together during the 10 months. Very important institute was established in the state that is designed to prevent crime. It presents one of the characteristics of the developed states.

How do you think, is your course successfully followed since you have left the Ministry of Corrections and Legal Assistance?

Of course. One of the characteristics of Georgian Government is that the institutions are sustainable and they are not changed after appointing new Ministers. So, probation was one part of the criminal law politics that Government has been implementing. If you get familiarized with the results of statistics of 2009 that was published by the Ministry of Justice, you will discover that crime was decreased. This is the result of the effective work of the Ministry of Internal Affairs and General Prosecutor’s Office. The Ministry of Probation made its little contribution to this advanced statistical data as well.

You are a Public Official. Is the institute of Public Official really established in Georgia according to your assessment? In foreign countries, people receive the great experience in order to become qualified Public Officials. . . What do you think about the current condition of Georgia, do Public Officials of Georgia understand the sense of this position?

Difficult question. I think this institute is really established. Government is powerful. Rating data show, government works for the people and people understand this.

Most important is that the goal of public officials’ is creating developed institutions. Current or future governments should not have influence on institutions. The main achievement of the current government is establishing institutions. For example, army and police did not exist in 2003. . . Government founded them in 7 years, I think very successfully.

You mentioned, your leaving of MCLA will not change anything. If we think about MES, several Ministers have been changed since the Rose Revolution. Alterations have been followed after appointing new Ministers. How do you evaluate the continuous course of MES? Different priorities had Kakha Lomaia, Nika Gvaramia . . .

Corruption was the main problem in the country during Kakha’s office. School children were not entering Higher Education Institutions on their own, they were admitted in higher educational institutions with the support of relatives and money. Khakha had to solve this problem. He successfully solved this problem and destructed corruption and students are enrolled in Higher Education Institutions independently according to their talent and knowledge. Exactly Kakha’s achievements allowed us to go to the next step. I think our opponents see the students entering universities independently as well. This afforded us to go to the next step and solve the problems, existing at schools. School children have to go to schools and study. We should do everything in order to give the teachers opportunity of teaching.

Your opponents often criticize 12 year studying model. What do you think about positive and negative aspects of 12 and 11 year studies? Are not you going to return the former model of 11 year studying?

Answer is easy. Bologna process envisages 12 year studies. Georgia, as well as all other European states   are involved in this process. If we want to be the part of Europe, we should follow the rules of European games. If we want our children to give opportunity of studying abroad and then return to Georgia, 12year studying is necessary for implementing this wish. When we talk about globalization and about Georgia as the part of Europe, we should know rules of European game that are admitted by all European states. We are obliged to follow these requirements.

Is it necessary to study 12 years in order to receive general education, or do we follow these norms because Europe follows these standards?

This doesn’t mean we simply follow European norms. 12 years are exactly defined for educational process in order to receive general education – this is exactly defined formula that gives children opportunity to receive necessary education.

Variable textbooks represent the real problem at schools. Your opponents say, similar subjects shouldn’t be taught with different textbooks in different schools. Are not you going to develop the textbook approval regulations or introduce standard textbooks? How are you going to solve this problem?

It is right that we really have textbook problems. The President of Georgia spoke about this problem in Batumi when he underlined the strategy of the second level of educational reform. We are going to finally solve the textbook problems by 2012.

You mean, schools will use similar books?

No, the difference exists between our strategy and the ideas of our non-professional opponents. Like you, I have heard the ideas as well that similar textbooks should exist for everyone, everything equal and etc.

In my opinion, this means returning to the Soviet era. I myself studied in the epoch and this was incorrect approach. Nobody will think in civilized countries to establish similar textbooks and someone who will decide how to write these books.

It is right that we have to restrict the textbook control and we work on this issue now. But we are not going to establish group of 3-5 members who will decide everything. This is non-professional approach. These ideas are left from the Soviet epoch. One mother-party existed and everything was decided by this party.

The goal of MES is to establish variable environment and create some good textbooks in all subjects. Unfortunately, mistakes were made in the past in the approval process. The textbooks that are not in compliance with our standards were approved.

Textbook problem is also connected with curriculum, which will be changed and new curriculum will be developed in September, 2010. We acknowledge that we made mistake when we gave full independence to the teachers and they were able to choose 100% of the teaching program on their own.

60% compulsory components will be considered in National Curriculum. Teacher will be free in decisions in the left 40%. For example: teachers were evaluating workings of Ilia Chavchavadze, but concrete writing that would be included in educational program was not defined. Therefore, different   writing was taught in Sagarejo, Tbilisi, Zugdidi and etc.

So new National Curriculum will envisage 60%compulsory components and the state will define concrete writings to be taught in all schools. Teachers will be independent in the left40% and they will be able to choose and create curriculum according to their talent and opportunities.

By 2010 textbook approval problem will be solved. This year, approval will be restricted. We have introduced new technical approval. We used psychologists’ experience in order to be sure, shift and paintings are in compliance with standards. Market has regulated situation partially and bad textbooks are not used in schools any more. But some textbooks of low quality that were published earlier still exist in the market.

Restricting of approval gave us opportunity that if one questionsarises about the book, it will not be approved. But when new National Curriculum will be developed, textbooks will be adapted once more. This process will be over by 2012 and I promise, all textbooks at schools will be of high quality in 2012. This is the most important. We do not say only one textbook will exist. This is not right approach. We say, some good textbooks will be published and parents and teachers will choose them on their own.

Developing Ethics Code is underway. It will be finished in May. One of the main components will be teacher’s duty to hold meetings with parents in the beginnings of trimesters and explain the reason why she selected the concrete textbook as well as define the teaching methods. Parents should have the whole information on the textbooks and the curriculum of their children.

Developing the Safe School program began when you were working in MCLA. What can you say about the crime condition among the school children?

This is one of the most difficult parts of educational reform. I have already talked about the statistical data of the Ministry of Justice, decrease of crime was observed in 2009. But unfortunately, we cannot say the same about juvenile crime. Therefore, one of the top priorities of MES is this issue and we established Resource Officer Institute that is very significant step to solve this problem. Resource Officers have already entered seven pilot schools. They will enter all Tbilisi Public schools step by step from September. Afterwards they will enter the school of bog cities. Resource Officers are high level professionals. They were trained in the Academy of the Ministry of Internal Affairs. They passed special courses with psychologists and received training in conflict-management. Their main duty is not punishment but crime prevention. Since two weeks passed we saw that our decision was absolutely right. Unfortunately, some people do not like this initiative. For example: Resource Officers abolished the facts when 11^th graders were taking away food from the first graders. It is impossible to be tolerant on this fact. But I heard, we shouldn’t interfere in these facts, children will define everything among each other on their own. Worst facts happen sometimes. But we will solve this problem by interfering and protecting the rights of all children.

Resource Officers are in good relations with the school children. We are glad when we see how they assist the school children. For example, one child lost her mobile phone. Resource Officer asked the police for help. Police found the phone in an hour and a half. Unfortunately, sometimes conflict happens among the teachers and the school children. It is prohibited to send the school child for personal documents in governmental institution especially during the educational process. Parents send their children to school in order to study. Turning the school child out of the class room and asking him/her to call father is also prohibited. Teacher has no right to turn 7 year old child in the street.

These facts are inadmissible for us. I think public and my opinions about Resource Officers are the same.

Passing exams in all subjects fin order to receive diplomas is negatively evaluated from one part of the public. They say it is quite difficult to pass exams in all subjects to receive school diploma. Maybe the school children do not need to know humanitarian or technical subjects on the same level. They say new era of tutors began.

I cannot agree. Last two years children study only those 3-4 subjects with tutors they have to pass in Unified Entry Exams. The result is a faulty practice. School children have to receive general education at schools. If we do not change anything, the school children will study only 3-4 subjects. Main problem is that the school children will not be able to enter universities at desired specialties, for example: student wanted to be enrolled on law faculty and was admitted on mathematics according to the second choice. But she/he has not read the book of mathematics for four years. How do you think, will this child become the specialist of mathematics?

Exams have been assigned for this reason. Children have to prove minimal competency. We do not ask them to know all subjects excellently. When we talk about receiving diplomas, we mean minimal competency level. We have approved the program that envisages necessary material to pass the exams. For example, history: school children have to know when Christianity was accepted as the state religious, who Napoleon Bonaparte was. . .multiplication table, competence is minimal.

School children should know geography by all means.

Before you were appointed, School Principals were selected by lottery principle. Many people opposed this idea. Are you going to use this method?

This was a mistake that was noted by the President of Georgia. This fact will not happen anymore. Group is created according to my order that will develop Standards for School Principals. Unfortunately, up to present we did not have the standard. It will be finally approved in May. Principals present very important figures in the educational process. He/she is the manager who regulates quite large sphere.

Opinion exists that requirements to the teachers about attestations were much more radical when Kakha Lomaia was the Minister. Teachers thought it was inadmissible. But different events occurred after November 2007. Teachers became more privileged. Government presented them with vouchers, attestations are not required any more. . . Did elections lower the requirements to the teachers?

l teachers who work at schools should pass certification by 2014 according to the law on education. Therefore, we began voluntary certification process in 2010. All parents wish their children to receive high quality knowledge from qualified teachers. Certification is being held to achieve this goal. First certification exams will be held in 2010, July. Around 15,000 teachers have applied and are ready to pass exams. I think, absolutely right approach have been developed about material encouragement according to the President’s announcement that certified teachers will receive additional salary. This will be the stimulus teachers become more qualified and teach the children better.

Teachers who are not going to pass certification exams will protest this issue. . .

Teachers will pass 2 exams – one in subject and other in general abilities. Tests are created very professionally. We can check teacher’s knowledge in these two dimensions. This gives guarantees to the parents. Teacher s who turn out the 7 year old child out of the class room will not be able to pass general ability tests.

But she/he will still stay in school. . .

All teachers will maintain jobs until 2014. Teachers who will not pass the certification exams will not be able to work at schools.

In order to finish school theme, let’s talk about canteens. As I know, innovations are planned at schools. . .

Ministry of Economics will announce bidding in May. Companies will have an opportunity to manage school canteens for 5 years. Concrete amount of investment is envisaged in terms in order to rehabilitate school canteens and provide with healthy food. Piloting will start in May. Most important is that children will buy food with credit cards. Banks will provide the school children with these cards free of charge. Parents will transfer money on these cards. The school children will be able to buy only food with credit cards. I think this is significant innovation.

State Strategy has been developed about occupied regions. One of the goals of this strategy is assistance of the teachers of these regions by the Georgian Government. Are you trying to support these territories with textbooks?

Concrete strategy exists, that is being implemented successfully. I wouldn’t talk about details in prevent the teachers from the problems.

Have you supported these regions with textbooks or computers?

Yes. We also care for these teachers.

Are you implementing these measures in accordance with puppet regime or you work independently?

I will not concrete this. Generally we have no agreement with this regime. But several measures exist, it can be international assistance, for example.

Number of Higher Educational Institutions has significantly increased in recent decade, than they decreased again. What condition is nowadays?

Nowadays around 70 accredited Higher Educational Institutions operate and their diplomas are recognized. But up to 200 licensed universities function, 25 of hold learning process but the problem is that state doesn’t recognize their diplomas. Students very often express dissatisfaction why state do not recognize diplomas of these universities of they received license from the state. We decided to develop new draft law that envisages authorization instead of license. It doesn’t concern 70 accredited institutions. We say to other 200 that state defines standards and if you satisfy these requirements then pass this authorization. It you don’t pass authorization, you would not be able to issue diploma but you will be able to issue certificate or some concrete reference certifying the graduation.

According to the current condition, around 30 institutions exist we do not control them. These institutions issue some diplomas. These problems will be solved by authorization.

Tuition fee was increased in recent period. Is government going to interfere in this issue and change the amount of fee?

This is an interesting question. Tendency of decreasing fee is observed this year for the first time. This is the result of the good principle of free market. Competition has increased and the number of the places is more than the students at universities. Therefore, universities began to decrease tuition fee. University that will not decrease fee will not be able to attract students. Universities should offer the students something new that will attract their attention.

Will the voucher allocation be increased? Experts often say, very few funds are allocated for education according to GDP. Is this amount of money enough to receive normal general education?

I work in accordance of the budget that is approved by the Parliament. Parliament approves the budget that is in compliance with resources of the state. I would wish to increase budget for ten times but this still depends on the resources of the country.

School principals are managers. Schools operate, that have the problems of the small contingent and only 2-3, or even 40 children study there. . .these schools will always be on state subsidies. State pays utility payments except vouchers. But if more than 600 school children study at school they will have an opportunity to solve the problems in the case of right management.

I want to say few words about private schools. Many people do not know that child from the private school receives vouchers from the state. If you talk with specialists, they will say that school is one of the beneficial activities. One private school exists in Tbilisi that pays very high salaries to the teachers. New building was built with swimming pools and infrastructure with 4mln GEL, it returns credit as well and follows all standards.  And the tuition fee is not high.

Each child is financed by the government with 400 GEL. If we multiply this on 600 children, the sum will be 240,000 GEL that is quite enough in the right management.

Mr. Minister, at the end of our dialogue I want to ask about your plans – are you planning your future activities in public sector, or in private sphere?

It doesn’t depend on me. The President and Prime Minister will decide this issue. We have just finished developing of the plan that will be implemented in 2010-2015. I think most important is implementation of this plan.

How do you spend free time and what is your hobby?

Unfortunately, I have no free time. I like very much to be with my family, traveling and playing with my children. My son is 11 years old, we both like computer and if I have time we play together.